I'd like to make a first point on this topic. Spirituality is a "sticky" thing sometimes. We talk about humility, sacrifice, surrender, non-attachment to material things. These topics are all valid, and important I belive to someone's spiritual path, but also are the topics that confuse people and often are abused by others in order to abuse those who follow them. I would personally like to see this topic addressed. Where do we draw the line? How does one know if they are following a spiritual idea such as self-sacrifice, or when they are allowing things to get our of hand? What could we include in the Bill that might make these points clear?
Can't wait to hear everyone's comments!
Soror FSO
Posts
I would first insist that magic be completely separate from the idea of spirituality. Any Initiate's Bill of Rights should be considered a grounds of ethical behavior surrounding the practice of magic much like one would expect from a scientist.
ReplyDeleteAs magic can be practiced without the influences of spirituality, I think to connect the two in the slightest takes a great deal away from the integrity of both.
First, I would say that while the idea is good, it doesn't go far enough. IMO the initiate should have the rights AND responsibilities:
ReplyDeleteThe initiate should have the right to be told the absolute truth.
The initiate should have the right to know all direct costs and fees before initiation.
The initiate should have the right to never face spiritual intimidation ("Well, if you were really on a spiritual path, you'd pay this fee for the extra course...")
The initiate should have the right not to have behaviors, including sexual behaviors, forced upon him or her.
The initiate should have the right to leave the Order for any reason without acts of retribution or malice directed toward him or her.
The initiate should have the right to ask questions.
The initiate should have the right to have questions answered.
The initiate should have the responsibility to support the order with effort and finances as explained before initiation.
The initiate has the responsibility of doing all assigned spiritual work or explaining why such things as doing rituals at home, keeping records, etc., was not possible.
The initiate has the responsibility to ask about what is not understood.
The initiate has the responsibility to understand vows before taking them, and then keeping them once they have been taken.
The initiate has the responsibility to question actions of people in the Order when such actions are deemed unethical.
The initiate has the responsibility to choose to leave the Order if it operates in ways contrary to the initiate's ethics and beliefs.
The initiate has the responsibility to NOT compare his or her spiritual/magical development with that of any other member.
I'm sure other people will agree, disagree, and add other ideas.
I think these are great ideas! Thank you for sharing!
ReplyDeleteThese are great ideas. I would add that it could be a list of "rights and responsibilities".
ReplyDeleteAn initiate, for example, has the responsibility for keeping their oath / oaths (depending on where they are at on the path). This should be even more important the "higher up" they get.
also personal financial gain and business interests should be kept entirely separate from any order business and members should not be used as a "market" for selling such products.
Initiates should have the right to have their opinions heard and recognised by those running an order and a procedure should be in place for voting out or removing a senior member of they are found to be not keeping to their oath on investigation. It should be very clear that any order does not belong to one individual but to the group.
Certainly an individual should not be allowed to keep a position of authority if they have broken the trust of others, even if they have been forgiven for that. Forgiveness does not imply the right to reclaim positions of power - if someone cannot be trusted then that usually is still the case.
Transparency is very important. NB finances, decisions affecting members, etc.
Thanks Soror FSO. Great idea to consider this.
I will come up with my own ideas.... however I should point out that if you want it to be adopted by other groups it has to be a little more general and not aimed at Zink or a reaction to him. For example:
ReplyDelete"The initiate should have the responsibility to support the order with effort and finances as explained before initiation."
It is not the responsibility of an Initiate to support the order financially. It is up to an adept to support the order to the best of their ability. Money does not enter into that arrangement specification that giving money is a responsibility is dangerously specific.
For example It means that if the order is financially mismanaged or exploited then it is the duty of initiates to bail it out. No, it isnt.
I would like to make or clear that this initiative is not being directed at RZ, it is based on community interest and need. It is not nor will it in the future be uncommon for people on a spiritual path to need support in making important decisions about thier path. Many people who first come to spiritual traditions of any kind are often full of stars and are completely trusting to others just because it a spiritual tradition. Having a bill of rights I think will help people to both understand thier rights and responsibilities. Having people such as yourself Nick to help craft it will help ensure it consists of pertinent information and beneficial content.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of rights & responsibilities both taken together. Here are a couple off the top of my head:
ReplyDelete* Right to a certain baseline amount of information about the group prior to making full commitment, such as who the leaders are, a general idea of the curriculum, and what oath they will have to commit to.
* Right to freely leave the group at any time.
* Right to not be manipulated in any way, sexual, financial, or otherwise, by the leadership or any teachers.
* Responsibility to abide by the spirit and letter of the Oath that has been taken upon initiation (this should cover most of the bases; that's the idea, right?)
* Responsibility to protect the anonymity of other members of the order and to return all sub-rosa materials if they leave the group. So far as I am concerned, these are the only ones that persist after someone leaves. My personal sense is that part of the Oath is abrogated if the person leaves that Order, but a part never is (such as confidentiality of members' identities and of grade materials).
LVX!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThese are great ideas. I would add that it could be a list of "rights and responsibilities".
An initiate, for example, has the responsibility for keeping their oath / oaths (depending on where they are at on the path). This should be even more important the "higher up" they get.
also personal financial gain and business interests should be kept entirely separate from any order business and members should not be used as a "market" for selling such products.
Initiates should have the right to have their opinions heard and recognised by those running an order and a procedure should be in place for voting out or removing a senior member of they are found to be not keeping to their oath on investigation. It should be very clear that any order does not belong to one individual but to the group.
Certainly an individual should not be allowed to keep a position of authority if they have broken the trust of others, even if they have been forgiven for that. Forgiveness does not imply the right to reclaim positions of power - if someone cannot be trusted then that usually is still the case.
Transparency is very important. NB finances, decisions affecting members, etc.
Wow agagin!
Thats basically what I have been thiking.
I 2nd this!
Frater SID
such things are often about the negative experiences of the past. The US Bill of Rights is a prime example. Negative reactions can often lead to a negative perspective and that can bleed into such documents. I urge you to look to the positive sides of things as well. Come to the project from a point of positive declaration as well as from the negative past point of view.
ReplyDeleteI ended up writing a blog post about this one.
ReplyDeleteI like knowing that there are people out there who actually care about young mystics being taken advantage of. This bill will be great.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
RFR
I understand that... my point was that a Bill of Rights is by nature fairly general and should not be considered as a reaction against something.
ReplyDeleteOne of the problems with the US constitution was was that things like the "right to bear arms" was a reaction against the British refusal to allow the settlers to form a militia. As such, it lost the plot on that particular one.
Cara VH Soror FSO,
ReplyDeleteIt is the responsibility of each individual member to trust their own instincts, they will always syeer you well.
As soon as abusive or illegal behavior is noted, it is imperative to act just like any other person in decent and regularly organized society would, and object or if that fails, to quit and move on.
An order does not need a bill of rights if each individual member has self-respect and is psychologically healthy and stable. Our countries have bills of rights that are pretty solid (heh, well mine does:(
It needs accessible bye-laws, a constitution, and a code of ethics.